Changing World Order

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Excellent line of logic

Post  Shelby on Fri Oct 30, 2009 10:34 pm

angophera wrote:...Q. What can/must the USA faction of the PTB extract from the USA and offer to the Chinese PTB (and other PTB factions) to buy their continued support of the "system" while they take their plans to completion?

One of the answers I come up with is Technology. (Some of the others include Real Estate (but on a continental scale -think Africa, Agriculture, Commodities and some others. However, these three are the main ones.)

This thinking is all part of the "what comes after" theory that I am developing which I alluded to in two earlier posts where I mentioned Agriculture.

Cheers!

I agree there are factions. I agree with your line of logic. Keep me posted.

The Chinese are playing the fiddle also:

http://financialsense.com/fsu/editorials/laird/2009/1028.html <--MUST READ

...US debt to GDP...roughly 400 pct of US GDP. Interpretation: well if the US ‘earns’ $14 trillion a year, it has to service debt on the aggregate of $56 trillion a year. Clearly on that measure, the US is just on the verge of a financial default across the public and private sectors. If interest rates start to rise, look out.

In fact, the US Federal government had to issue a tremendous amount of new debt (treasuries etc) in the second quarter of 09, basically bailing out the entire defaulting world banking system. The US used a combination of quantitative easing, and actually buying its own debt for half of its issuance. The Chinese went ballistic immediately and have been warning the Fed not to do that or else. Treasury Secretary Geithner flew to China to explain...

The point is the Chinese and the Wallstreet PTB both realize the implications of (and Chris got the specifics a bit wrong) impossibility of servicing interest payments on $56 trivillion per year with $14 trivillion gross sales (that is not income!, maybe only a few % of that is net income).

And so yes both PTB are jockeying for position on how they think this will play out.

It is clear that the take down in 2007-2008 was to show the developing countries that they can not decouple, so they will politically be able to participate in the currency swabs, stimulost, and other hippocracy to try to prop up the financial system as currently composed.

I find plausible Chris's logic that they take us into one more big financial bubble that so severely mis-allocates the developing world capital, that entire world is sucked into a world currency with the Greatest Depression every known to modern man. You can see this mis-allocation because factories are being sucked (out of even developing countries) into only a few countries, there are too many people in world now to be all farmers, ... etc... so what are the rest of the people being employed to do now? Basically service the bubble...

Remember that the basic creed of the PTB is that someone has to manage the lives of the useless eaters. Well it is sort of true (but that is a deep topic best covered here on the question of Intellectual Property and the value of artists: http://esr.ibiblio.org/?p=1337 )

* trivillion aka trillion, swabs aka swaps, stimulost aka stimulus

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Dinasour Economic Model

Post  Shelby on Sat Oct 31, 2009 12:15 am

Notice that the design is to suck all profit to the "top", i.e. a few people.

http://financialsense.com/fsu/editorials/schiff/2009/1029.html

...And for the first time ever, the Fed is paying interest on bank reserves. Therefore, the banks can loan money to the Fed and to the government, via Treasury securities, at an interest rate spread of some 3 to 4 percent without risk. Given these incentives, it makes no sense to loan to anybody else...

Basically the various PTB factions (Wallstreet, Taipans, Industrialists, Bankers, etc) look for ways to siphon wealth to themselves with the least resistance from the public. Wealth as power = control, because without control you can't really maintain your wealth or your power. So they do not really care if the wealth of the world grows less slowly and thus their total wealth is less than it could have been. What they care about is the fact that bigger fish eat big fish which eat the less big fish, and they don't want to be the one eaten someday.

This all comes from not following Biblical principles about wealth.

So we can deduce that they will inflate like hell and thus mis-allocate like hell, with the inflation flowing through them so they spend it first, and they get suck up the mis-allocation as defaults which throws more control to the center.

This is a dinasour game now. Every body is trying to get bigger so they won't get eaten, as we know that ended in their extinction (at least except for the small adept ones like birds and lizards, which we still have "millions of years" later):

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argentinosaurus#Description


See that little guy, that is you and me. Do not get trampled! Get out of their way!

Actually the model is not entirely accurate as I described it above, because the largest dinasours were actually vegetarians and were the food for the smaller (yet still large enough) but more voracious meat eaters. Well some think that they were just vultures, eating those big ones that died from other causes. Any way, that seems to be the actual model we have now. Wallstreet would be the vultures and the nations (the biggest dinasours) would be the small brain, useless eaters food supply.

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Tribute to Silenced Christian NWO Researchers

Post  skylick on Sat Nov 07, 2009 1:16 am

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-gizS3EOghc

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Block Heads - European Union influence in the USA

Post  skylick on Sat Nov 07, 2009 1:34 am

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QFY_RhX6xDY

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What I Think I Now Know! (Part 1)

Post  Guest on Sun Nov 08, 2009 1:16 am

Hi All,

My key assumptions are:
1. Fiat currencies and fractional reserve banking ie. control of the money is the foundation for the power and control of ALL Elites. Their "temple' has several pillars including control of energy sources but control of the money trumps everything else.

2. There is NO unified, co-ordinated PTB. It is made up of Factions who compete or co-operate as the situation and their self-interest demands.

I believe that the situation we are witnessing in the US and UK is analogous to the behaviour of a biological parasite. When the parasite detects that the host is dying it stops injecting the chemicals that fool the host's body into thinking the parasite is benefical. It then begins to attack the host, helping to kill it so the parasite can harvest the resources it needs to breed and continue its life cycle.

This is how I view the looting of the remains of the UK wealth and the final stages of the looting of the USA primarily by two "parasite" factions of the Elites ie. the Anglo-American Finance faction and the Military/Industrial complex.

3. The Bank for International Settlements (BIS) is the "one world bank" project.

4. The UN is the "one world government" project implemented through agencies such as the (WTO) World Trade Organisation. The EU and other trade blocs are just steps along the way. (This is a far from perfect construct but it's a human project and they are never perfect.)

5. The "one world currency" project (USD) has been cancelled and is being wound down (profitably) through a carry trade strategy (tested and perfected using gold and then Japan as the testing ground).

6. The Euro project and the Freegold thesis concerning gold are designed to deliver the bulk of the capital to the Factions who come on board.

The European Elites/PTB/Giants (call them what you like) have launched a project called the Euro. This is not motivated by altruism. I speculate that they launched it because they could see that the behaviour of the Anglo-American Elites was going to lead to disaster for the US and UK economies. I speculate that they saw this behaviour as "killing the host".

7. The Carbon Cap & Trade is the rollout of a global tax on every citizen and business (except for the "chosen few" who get an upfront pay-off in carbon "credits"). Please see also (8) Bond Markets.

8. The transfer of capital (5) and the global tax (6) replace the cancelled "one world currency" project (4).

9. Carbon C&T replaces the US Bond market as a "feeding" ground. Professor Fekete has explained how the structure of the US bond market is designed to give guarranteed profits to bond traders through falling interest rates. The Carbon C&T provides guarranteed profits for traders because the "caps" are continually adjusted downwards so the securities are guarranteed to rise.

10. The Elites greatest threat is the US Constitution and the Bill of Rights. Suppressing or destroying them has been a 200+ year preoccupation of the Elites.

11. The Elites may have over-reached themselves this time around. Perhaps because they think they can ignore or are above the laws of nature and mathematics.

Cheers!

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Why are you making it complicated?

Post  Shelby on Sun Nov 08, 2009 3:02 am

angophera,

It appears you are responding to the ongoing discussion at the other thread:

http://goldwetrust.up-with.com/economics-f4/what-is-money-t44-45.htm#2272

May I suggest you reduce the number of bolds and underlines (try to make it like 3 or 4 per post, prioritize), your prose is very hard to read. I think everyone knows how to read the words you've underlined and we understand what the intended importance of those words in context is. The problem is not one of understanding your points. The problem is one of you not yet having the complete picture of how it all fits together. I already do. You are adding some useful observations to fine-tune my understanding. I am on the look-out for some point that could invalidate my understanding.

angophera wrote:Hi All,

My key assumptions are:
1. Fiat currencies and fractional reserve banking ie. control of the money is the foundation for the power and control of ALL Elites. Their "temple' has several pillars including control of energy sources but control of the money trumps everything else...

Absolutely. And this can't be done with 100% gold reserve, as stated here:

http://goldwetrust.up-with.com/precious-metals-f6/gold-as-an-investment-t60-60.htm#2283

angophera wrote:...2. There is NO unified, co-ordinated PTB. It is made up of Factions who compete or co-operate as the situation and their self-interest demands...

How can you ignore the meetings of the intellectual elite?

There is a faction of the Giant-most (a few families, Rockefeller, Rothschild, Morgans, and the intermarriages), and they are coordinating, but not with explicit top-down management. The way they coordinate things is via consensus, i.e. Bilderberg meetings, Trilateral Commission, Council on Foreign Relations, G20, all the bilateral and multi-lateral meetings of sub-officials, etc.. The coordination achieved is not in terms of explicit commands, but rather in terms of structure, and the structure matches the natural law, as stated by the (sinful) wishes of the people. I remind you to read 1 Samuel 8, as God advised the people not to depend on a government, but the people refused, so in 1 Samuel 15, God carried out the natural law, where he told the King to send all the people's sons to war and to kill everyone in Egypt who had persecuted the Jews. So both sides got destroyed in a way. This is how the natural law works. Both the rich, the poor, and the middle class will be destroyed now by their sins.

angophera wrote:...I believe that the situation we are witnessing in the US and UK is analogous to the behaviour of a biological parasite. When the parasite detects that the host is dying it stops injecting the chemicals that fool the host's body into thinking the parasite is benefical. It then begins to attack the host, helping to kill it so the parasite can harvest the resources it needs to breed and continue its life cycle.

This is how I view the looting of the remains of the UK wealth and the final stages of the looting of the USA primarily by two "parasite" factions of the Elites ie. the Anglo-American Finance faction and the Military/Industrial complex...

So what? Yes some factions are looting in support of the overall trend towards NWO.

angophera wrote:...3. The Bank for International Settlements (BIS) is the "one world bank" project.

4. The UN is the "one world government" project implemented through agencies such as the (WTO) World Trade Organisation. The EU and other trade blocs are just steps along the way. (This is a far from perfect construct but it's a human project and they are never perfect.)...

Yes and many other organizations as I mentioned above. We are definitely moving towards a NWO. You are questioning whether ONE currency will be part of it. I know it will be because #1 the Bible says so, and #2 because the Giant-most have said so, and #3 the CFR and others have put out timelines for currency blocs, and #4 the structure of the SDRs and the float against gold (but without 100% reserve) will naturally result in blocs (common demographics will join to counter-balance extremely disruptive, competing blocs with radically different demographics, and socialism by its nature must grow in population in order to not die...e.g. USSR).

(Btw, I was aware of Basel rounds also)

angophera wrote:...5. The "one world currency" project (USD) has been cancelled and is being wound down (profitably) through a carry trade strategy (tested and perfected using gold and then Japan as the testing ground)...

Why do you ignore what I wrote at the link above? The USD was never a one-world currency (it was not used as a currency in every sovereign nation... the locals have not given up their control over their own interest rates!!!). If you are going to make me say things 3x, then I am going to stop replying. I am losing valuable time.

That was RobRoy's mistake, he thinks USD was fulfillment of Revelations, but he didn't pay attention to the fact that USD was not a global currency. It was only a global reserve.

angophera wrote:...6. The Euro project and the Freegold thesis concerning gold are designed to deliver the bulk of the capital to the Factions who come on board.

The European Elites/PTB/Giants (call them what you like) have launched a project called the Euro. This is not motivated by altruism. I speculate that they launched it because they could see that the behaviour of the Anglo-American Elites was going to lead to disaster for the US and UK economies. I speculate that they saw this behaviour as "killing the host"...

Yes the Euro is part of the myraid of schemes that capture natural law and move us structurally towards NWO, but you are myopic if only focus on the Euro.

angophera wrote:...7. The Carbon Cap & Trade is the rollout of a global tax on every citizen and business (except for the "chosen few" who get an upfront pay-off in carbon "credits"). Please see also (8) Bond Markets.

8. The transfer of capital (5) and the global tax (6) replace the cancelled "one world currency" project (4)...

It is a transistion from USD reserve (not currency!) system to the next stage in the march towards NWO.

angophera wrote:...9. Carbon C&T replaces the US Bond market as a "feeding" ground. Professor Fekete has explained how the structure of the US bond market is designed to give guarranteed profits to bond traders through falling interest rates. The Carbon C&T provides guarranteed profits for traders because the "caps" are continually adjusted downwards so the securities are guarranteed to rise...

Astute (I mean I already knew that too). And this will be another "kill the host" programs. It is all a big march of socialism forward. The USD served its useful life to the Giants-most. They have pulled the factions to consensus (in some cases and other cases they will use factions against each other).

angophera wrote:...10. The Elites greatest threat is the US Constitution and the Bill of Rights. Suppressing or destroying them has been a 200+ year preoccupation of the Elites...

The free mind of people to reject socialism (i.e. to follow the 1 Samuel 8 ) is the greatest threat to Satan yes. The Giants are winning. But God wins in the end (after the world is destroyed by Revelations).

angophera wrote:...11. The Elites may have over-reached themselves this time around. Perhaps because they think they can ignore or are above the laws of nature and mathematics.

Cheers!

If the crisis gets too far and fast out-of-control, they will resort to war, in order to capture that chaos in their hand, as the nations must borrow and spend to finance war, and it voids rule of law and puts the young men under control.

They are very much in resonance with the socialism that enough of the people want.

Carrol Quigley (an insider of Giants) argued they should publicly disclosure their existence and plans. His rational is that since they are and must be in harmony (resonance) with what "enough of the people" want, then make it public can only help refine and will not cause any hindrance. I think the Giants have been somewhat afraid to go public, but the closer they get to NWO, the more public they are and this is by necessity, because they must be even more in tune with the socialism trend and thus more people and more meetings contributing to the feedback loop of the factions organism.

NWO = trend of globalized socialism

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Re: Changing World Order

Post  Guest on Sun Nov 08, 2009 6:54 am

Hi Shelby,

Shelby wrote:
"Why do you ignore what I wrote at the link above? The USD was never a one-world currency (it was not used as a currency in every sovereign nation... the locals have not given up their control over their own interest rates!!!). If you are going to make me say things 3x, then I am going to stop replying. I am losing valuable time."

I did read what you wrote. You do not need to repeat things. I did not find your arguments convincing in regard to a supposed intention of delivering a one world currency nor on your categorization of the USD as nothing more than a reserve currency.

The USD was/is the No.1 reserve currency because just about every country on the planet needed to hold it in order to buy oil. For most of the developing world and poor nations their debts were denominated in USD so they HAD to hold/accumulate USD. In deference to you I introduced the words "de facto". I see the USD as a test run for a one world currency and I maintain it failed in this role. I believe none of the factions will ever again trust one faction to control the No. 1 printing press.

We will have to agree to disagree on this point, or not if you prefer.

As to this centrally managed NWO program you believe in I think this is designed to exploit people's tendency to subscribe to the "effective manager fallacy". People want to believe that "someone is in charge" that "someone is running the show" because the notion that "no-one is in charge" frightens them. I have read a lot about the Bilderbergers, Illuminati, CFR etc. Yes I agree they facilitate discussion, co-operation and so on. You then go on to talk about this as if it automatically proves your point. I don't believe it does.

The CIA never confirms or denies their involvement in any of the assassinations, toppling of Governments etc that they are accused of precisely because the speculation adds to their mystique.

In relation to the quotations from the bible. I have never met anyone who I felt was sufficiently gifted to be able to accurately interpret the bible's meaning regardless of the depth of their faith. So I treat pronouncements that "X event" is the event predicted in a given passage of the bible as nothing more than speculation.

I grew up in an environment where it was believed that whenever the Pope sat in St Peter's chair (it looks more like a throne) his pronouncements were infallible. How's that working out so far?

Cheers!

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Come back to reality

Post  Shelby on Sun Nov 08, 2009 7:06 am

angophera wrote:...I did not find your arguments convincing in regard to a supposed intention of delivering a one world currency nor on your categorization of the USD as nothing more than a reserve currency.

The USD was/is the No.1 reserve currency because just about every country on the planet needed to hold it in order to buy oil. For most of the developing world and poor nations their debts were denominated in USD so they HAD to hold/accumulate USD. In deference to you I introduced the words "de facto". I see the USD as a test run for a one world currency and I maintain it failed in this role. I believe none of the factions will ever again trust one faction to control the No. 1 printing press...

You have just stated that it was only a reserve currency. You have contradicted yourself.

Then you raise a new point, which is you do not think people will ever again trust anything centralized. Cripes, you think they will toss aside their national govts? (I wish they would follow 1 Samual 8!) The national govts are not autonomous, they are squeezed in between the will of the people and the external trade realities. This collective desire of the people, will not have changed by some magic of destroying the USD system. People (on aggregate) never learn (haven't you observed that in life?).

Actually they eventually will toss their nation govts in favor of currency blocs.

angophera wrote:...As to this centrally managed NWO program...

First of all, I have made a careful point that it is not centrally managed, but rather symbiotic at many meshing levels, and there is a level of Giant-most who stand to be above its wrath until the final killing of the host. The Giant-most are most definitely not in control (even they may think they are having great influence, it is more like natural resonance), the sin of man is in control.

For example, if there is a need to resort to war due to chaos, the will of the people will be in support of it. The people will be tasting revenge for their pitiful, chaotic plight down into their bones.

angophera wrote:...you believe in I think this is designed to exploit people's tendency to subscribe to the "effective manager fallacy". People want to believe that "someone is in charge" that "someone is running the show" because the notion that "no-one is in charge" frightens them...

People want to have all they want, then they want someone else to figure out how to give it to them. Read 1 Samuel 8. That always has been and always will be until the end of them.

angophera wrote:...I have read a lot about the Bilderbergers, Illuminati, CFR etc. Yes I agree they facilitate discussion, co-operation and so on. You then go on to talk about this as if it automatically proves your point. I don't believe it does...

You are misdirecting from the mathematical proof of my point. The structure of man will insure that socialism can never decrease. It didn't decrease when USSR fell, the socialism just accelerated in the west. Perhaps one can argue it decreased after Rome fell, and it was precisely because people used physical metal as currency. It also imploded the progress of man enormously and lead to a lot of ready bad intrigues, plagues, etc.. The reason being because the people were not happy (with their gold currency deflation)-- they couldn't get everything they wanted, so they let the Catholic church take out their revenge.

I believe a wise man is a student of history.

angophera wrote:...In relation to the quotations from the bible. I have never met anyone who I felt was sufficiently gifted to be able to accurately interpret the bible's meaning regardless of the depth of their faith...

Then the wisdom is not for you. And it might explain why you can't understand me. It is supposed to be that way. Only a few will understand.

Btw, please do not associate the Pope with Christianity. There was a corruption of Christianity in 300 AD by the King of Spain. I do not use the Roman Catholic bible. If you do not even know that it violates the 2nd Commandment and thus the Pope, Saints, and all that are idols and sins, then I would say you are not even near the level where you could understand any of the Biblical interpretations to even judge if they are correct or not. But you will have to decide that for yourself. I am not here to judge you, only to refute some points about direction of socialism.

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Ah ha! So the capital controls will come from the outside!?

Post  Shelby on Fri Nov 20, 2009 7:55 pm

Maybe the capital controls will not be inside the western countries to prevent capital from leaving, but rather inside the developing countries to prevent dollar toilet paper (carry trade) from coming in!?

And the logical extension of this is that these currency blocs will try to join together so that their trade is not suffocated. Thus we can see early indication of currency blocs forming. See how the larger economy of China is able to peg their currency to the dollar.

http://www.kitco.com/ind/nadler/nov202009.html

Easy money in the United States, a falling dollar and growing flows of funds seeking better returns in emerging markets are touching off a round of capital controls in hot emerging markets, a trend that could accelerate...loose money in the developed world is helping to spur investment in emerging markets, driving their currencies up and making local exports less competitive for countries that, unlike China, are not hitching free rides as the dollar declines.

...On Wednesday, Russia joined the list of countries considering measures to stem currency speculation and appreciation...making it tougher or more expensive for money borrowed abroad to be taken into Russia...

...Elsewhere across developing Asia, central banks have been intervening to cap gains in the value of their currencies, with Taiwan going so far as to ban foreign funds from investing in local time deposits. Brazil announced a 2 percent tax last month on foreign investment in stocks and fixed-income securities to limit the strengthening of its currency, the real...


...There must be a risk that capital controls become part of an escalating series of beggar-thy-neighbor steps taken by countries fighting over the scraps of a diminished U.S. and European appetite for imported goods...

...“There’s more going on to this than just small little plans that are being made to tweak things here and there to discourage people from speculating in the currency markets,” a BMO analyst said.

“It’s all part of a general theme right now that countries outside the U.S. and China are extremely concerned about the weak dollar and yuan, and are attempting in any way to arrest the strengthening of their currencies,”...

...Authorities from Brasilia to Moscow to Jakarta are moving to curb what they say are ‘hot money’ speculative flows fuelling rapid currency appreciation and destabilizing their recovering economies. With currency market intervention seen as increasingly inflationary, governments are resorting to direct capital controls to prevent local bubbles expanding and bursting. In contrast to controls imposed by emerging economies at the height of the global financial crisis last year, the latest measures are aimed at slowing massive capital flows from investors seeking higher yields amid the persistence of near-zero interest rates in the biggest developed economies.

My prior prognostications:

http://goldwetrust.up-with.com/precious-metals-f6/gold-as-an-investment-t60-75.htm?sid=c00e99d04f5c74d00fc9d6642b94f7e9#2332

Shelby wrote:...Every direction I look, I see the society is preparing to say "no way" to people (other than the ones giving the masses what they want) being able to escape with their idle capital while the titantic sinks. I suspect there will be no problem with escaping (sovereign, tax, theft risk) with say 10% of your net worth in gold and slowly spend it until you die in small opportune increments. But to be able to rely on a stash of gold as your regular cash and liquidity, and for large capital store-of-value, seems risky...

http://goldwetrust.up-with.com/precious-metals-f6/gold-as-an-investment-t60-60.htm?sid=c00e99d04f5c74d00fc9d6642b94f7e9#2301

Shelby wrote:...One that will allow socialism to march to greater heights, because no fiat will have any accountability except relative to other fiats. Since all people of the world are (on aggregate) infinitely socialistic (no upper limit to insatiable desires of humans), then this will be a race of the fiats to see who can be the most socialistic.

Your concept that gold will provide a discipline to these fiats, is your BIG MISTAKE. Think about that for a few days. Eventually you will realize. I explained this to you yesterday. How can gold regulate the fiats, when they are competing to be as bad as they can be? I had explained the mechanism for that to you yesterday, in terms of interest rates and trade dependencies. For example, if the Euro is so much more disciplined than every other fiat, then the Euro will become so highly valued, that all the wealth of EU will flow out (as trade deficits) to the developing world (as trade surpluses, because EU is a retirement community and has low production per capita).
So it pays for the developing world to devalue their currency as fast as possible...

http://goldwetrust.up-with.com/economics-f4/what-is-money-t44-60.htm#2308

Shelby wrote:"Pay in Blood" System

Understanding the precise mechanism for the transistion to NWO...

[.....8<....]

...
The new global financial model will be one where currencies are not stores-of-value, but merely transactional and political conveniences. The major coup is that for the first time in history of world, people will trust currencies that have no store-of-value component. They will trust that a free float of currencies against gold will function as a regulator. But this will be a race to "who can debase the most", due to the insatiable march of socialist human nature. Free floating gold as a store-of-value, will provide no brake to grouping of populaces into a plurality of brakeless currencies, because of the Iron Law of Group Politics. Also I have explained, how such a model will force formation of currency blocs...

http://goldwetrust.up-with.com/economics-f4/changing-world-order-t32-45.htm#2169

Shelby wrote:...the take down in 2007-2008 was to show the developing countries that they can not decouple, so they will politically be able to participate in the currency swabs, stimulost, and other hippocracy to try to prop up the financial system as currently composed.

I find plausible Chris's logic that they take us into one more big financial bubble that so severely mis-allocates the developing world capital, that entire world is sucked into a world currency with the Greatest Depression every known to modern man. You can see this mis-allocation because factories are being sucked (out of even developing countries) into only a few countries, there are too many people in world now to be all farmers, ... etc... so what are the rest of the people being employed to do now? Basically service the bubble...

* trivillion aka trillion, swabs aka swaps, stimulost aka stimulus

http://goldwetrust.up-with.com/economics-f4/changing-world-order-t32-45.htm#2284

Shelby wrote:...#3 the CFR and others have put out timelines for currency blocs, and #4 the structure of the SDRs and the float against gold (but without 100% reserve) will naturally result in blocs (common demographics will join to counter-balance extremely disruptive, competing blocs with radically different demographics, and socialism by its nature must grow in population in order to not die...e.g. USSR)...

[.....8<....]

...NWO = trend of globalized socialism

Competing currency debasement (global fiats devaluation relative to gold and silver) will be futile ("race to the inflationary, distortionary, mis-allocation bottom), because unlike in Japan, there is no larger part of the global economy to leech off of (to export to with a devalued currency), but society can not stop it because society is already dependent on this fiat (aka "road to socialism") system:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/economics/6599281/Societe-Generale-tells-clients-how-to-prepare-for-global-collapse.html

...Inflating debt away might be seen by some governments as a lesser of evils.

If so, gold would go "up, and up, and up" as the only safe haven from fiat paper money...

...The bank said the current crisis displays "compelling similarities" with Japan during its Lost Decade (or two), with a big difference: Japan was able to stay afloat by exporting into a robust global economy and by letting the yen fall. It is not possible for half the world to pursue this strategy at the same time...

But the investment advice they give won't protect you from the inflationary part:

...SocGen advises bears to sell the dollar and to "short" cyclical equities such as technology, auto, and travel to avoid being caught in the "inherent deflationary spiral". Emerging markets would not be spared. Paradoxically, they are more leveraged to the US growth than Wall Street itself. Farm commodities would hold up well, led by sugar.

Mr Fermon said junk bonds would lose 31pc of their value in 2010 alone. However, sovereign bonds would "generate turbo-charged returns" mimicking the secular slide in yields seen in Japan as the slump ground on. At one point Japan's 10-year yield dropped to 0.40pc. The Fed would hold down yields by purchasing more bonds. The European Central Bank would do less, for political reasons...

Problem with sugar is that price of oil is a major factor on cultivation and on bringing to market. Bonds won't outpace the debasement inflation. Currencies will compete to devalue, so selling dollar might not outpace. Shorting equities may fail, or not outpace, if debasement is sufficient.

I explained above (if sub-links are followed), that even if gold outpaces (oil and debasement), after taxes and other threats, it is also not a panacea. Investors are in a real pickle no matter what they do. I have stated that I like Buffet's strategy on investing in the shift in trend (a railroad, most fuel efficient bulk goods transport) and the inevitable decline of sprawling suburbs. We want to leverage to the changes that must come-- that is only way to get ahead during this period. Gold should be your 10% insurance policy, maybe you throw another 10 - 20% in the silver story, especially if you don't have a clear Buffet style winning leverage investment. In short, if gold skyrockets, then it means society is coming after you if you have a "too visibl"e exposure to gold, and if gold doesn't skyrocket, then you lost ground relative to those who leveraged with income, how society must change in order to prosper (prosper or at least bottom out). By "too visible", I mean that you want to actually do something with the gold before you die, so you can't just hide it until socialism decays enough, and it amounts to vast amount of wealth (which will be true if gold skyrockets and you had a large net worth invested, and if not true then gold lost ground against income investments).

In short, you are either part of the problem or part of the solution. Wouldn't it be best to be earning an income that is leveraged to increase as the side-effects of socialism increases? (i.e. be part of a fledgling capitalist trend that exploits the socialism trend) I think what many people do not grasp is that a skyrocketing gold price is consistent with skyrocketing socialism. When socialism has peaked, then gold price will have peaked, because gold pays no income and thus is in demand when people fear the socialism. But the problem is that when socialism peaks, socialism will be much worse (and for still much longer) than it is today. Are you confident you can convert your gold to good levered investments in a period of maximum socialism? Wouldn't it be better to be pre-positioned in a by-then peaking industry (Buffet will sell his railroad perhaps at peak in this wave of socialism in USA) that everyone wants to buy and that is not perceived jealously by govts? Some people argue that socialism is decreasing, e.g. China become more capitalistic, but the fact remains that although there are pockets of new capitalistic trends, until gold peaks in fiat price, then these new capitalistic trends are not the most dominant (yet). And this is not a straight line, as we see that gold fell in price drastically from 1980 to 2001 (even more drastically in inflation-adjusted terms, except oil which also fell), because the socialism of USSR and developing world was decreasing, but lately the socialism of the western world and the fiat system has grown more dominant.

So there are many counter-trends and there are even temporary reversals along the path of the final 100% socialism of a 100% one world system. Rubber band measuring sticks galore, it is hard to pick one asset class to measure performance against. To bury one's capital entirely in gold and silver hoping for that final end, or hoping for some interim reversal peak, is some what risky, because people are still today digging up gold that was buried in the Dark Ages, which lasted centuries. Ideally you would find a way to use gold as a currency and hold your liquid capital in gold, spend it, and get paid in it, without ever needing to convert to and from fiat. Unfortunately it doesn't work, because we have to trade with the world, and the world is dependent on the more liquid fiat system, which I explain in depth in the next post below.

The Bible gives me the answer. Those who hoard wealth in the end times are doomed. The story of the talents admonishes the one who buried his talent, as being worse than the despicable usury return. We are told in numerous places in the Bible to invest our talents in the poor. We are told we can not take our wealth with us when we die any way, and that we are not supposed to worry and cling to wealth ("a rich man has a better chance of pushing a camel through eye of needle, than to enter gates of heaven" and "if God can feed birds, why not humans"). How much more simple and clear can it be?


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Gold & Silver can not be *CURRENCIES* ever again

Post  Shelby on Sat Nov 21, 2009 2:36 pm

Please first re-read (I added to it), the prior post Ah ha! So the capital controls will come from the outside!?:

Shelby wrote:...I think what many people do not grasp is that a skyrocketing gold price is consistent with skyrocketing socialism. When socialism has peaked, then gold price will have peaked, because gold pays no income and thus is in demand when people fear the socialism. But the problem is that when socialism peaks, socialism will be much worse (and for still much longer) than it is today. Are you confident you can convert your gold to good levered investments in a period of maximum socialism? Wouldn't it be better to be pre-positioned in a by-then peaking industry...

Bottom line: we can not restore non-socialistic monetary system, by first dis-hoarding the society of wealth via extreme socialism, because there is no way to restore the wealth in a human generation (20 years) non-socialistically.

I guess I am not quite done commenting on my forum, as I first need to satisfy myself that I have addressed the theory (and thus what is appropriate investment), that postulates a return to some form of gold (or commodity basket, or bi-metallic with silver) standard, or that these real goods stores-of-value will somehow brake the current slide into global chaos and socialistic responses (i.e. "universal stimulost, mis-allocation, debasement, distortion, inflation"). Bix Weir has a series of thought-provoking articles (seminal) (and I take him seriously because he published the expose on the US govt 470 Moz silver WW2 Manhattan Project hoard).

First, note that "store-of-value" is a valid property of money, but not of currency, and in fact currencies are always debased even on a metallic standard, because people needs credit, i.e. paper promises (e.g. certificates-of-deposit, real bills, letters-of-credit, etc) and these promises become more liquid and thus always become the more popular currencies even on a metallic standard. People (all of us) can not resist the urge for more liquidity, because we are concerned about not living forever and the opportunity cost of time. This is actually a Biblical statement of natural law and human nature, enumerated in 1 Samuel 8, wherein people are not able to accept their immortality under they King of Kings, because we reject the 2nd Commandment (Old Testament, was replace in Roman Catholic bible) and refuse to stop whor(e)shipping and clinging to things of this material world (which btw, is scientifically only one of infinite parallel universes that exist right now all around us, which I have discussed at length and proven beyond any doubt, e.g. Shannon-Nyquist theorem, in the Technology, Biblical, and interspersed in the other forums of this site).

Second, note that not even including the potential monetary store-of-value demand for silver which will snowball if silver's price rises significantly (and certainly not including demand if it were to come back as currency!), that it is impossible for the world to industrialize without 1+Boz of additional annual supply of silver (and thus enticing the 16+Boz of silverware to market at orders-of-magnitude higher price, noting that most applications for silver are not price sensitive because small % of end product cost).

Bix Weir postulates that "Road to Roota" is a return to the gold standard; whereas, I as postulate in Ah ha! So the capital controls will come from the outside!? that we are in a fiat "Road to Socialism", and I actually see the supporting symbolism for "Road to Socialism" in the Fed cartoon Weir analyzes. Afaics, Bix Weir postulates that the fiat system is being destroyed in an egregious manner that will force global adoption of a gold standard. But the (most so in the developed country) populations will be disenfranchised unless the govts distribute gold, and how can the govts distribute gold when they do not have any? Digital gold doesn't change the fact that not even 1% of the population can move into gold without having the other 99% lose all their net worth. The only two possible answers are attempt (and fail) to steal the gold (taxation, etc) and thus send it into hiding until the socialism has destroyed itself, which means the population must either die or work as slaves for those who hold gold. In short, returning to a gold standard now is a feudal system. Btw, this may explain the H1N1 virus developments. The coming feudal lords want to get rid of the population who consume more than they produce (part of the socialism killing itself and reseting). That process took centuries in Dark Ages, after the socialism of Roman Empire peaked.

Also we have to consider a dichotomy in the global economy, in that the boomers are now ready to enter socialism (to be taken care of, are unproductive or much less so in most cases) and thus are a big expense on the balance sheet of the world, so whereas the 300+ million boomers drove demand for liquidity in 70s, 1500+ million developing youth are driving liquidity demands now. So the boomers did not want gold after 1971 because they wanted credit (liquidity), driving interest rates skyhigh, and thus neither will the developing world youth want their liquidity to be constrained to a gold standard now. This is why the carry trade is going to developing world investments, and this correctly increases the buying power of the developing world, but the problem is the developing world has been so mis-allocated on building things for the developed world, that it can not de-couple quickly enough to building things only for itself (that capitalism is growing fast, but not fast enough to offset an implosion of the developing world, but eventually these 2 trends will kiss, cross, and say goodbye heading in different directions, but not without some perhaps decades volatility first).

So the outcome is crystal clear. There is no way to return a gold standard, where currency (legal tender or otherwise) is backed by gold. The dominant trend is liquidity and debasement, as a process of shifting the wealth from developed to developing world, not through investment from developed world, but by consumption of the developed world and then a gradual self-investment diversification by the developing world itself. And thus the world is going to run to extremely high levels of mis-allocation, debasement, destruction, trade wars, etc, before the developing world is able to pull away. The way this process is currently dominantly structured, the developed world will destroy itself with socialism (the PTB is apparently trying to accelerate the process with H1N1), and the developing world is trying to pull away into more capitalism, but it can't pull away fast enough to be the dominant trend, and thus there will be interim trade wars and destructive maneuvers. That is unless all us in developed world stop putting our capital in holes and get busy on accelerating the investment in making things in developing world for the developing world.

As I detailed in prior discussion (see links in prior post and my "Pay In Blood" financialsense.com article), we are moving towards a new type of gold standard, wherein no national currency will claim to be "as good as gold", and gold will be a rising store-of-value. All the currencies will be viewed as trash, except maybe for the Euro (if it doesn't fracture due to varied demographics in EU), because the retirement politics of Old Europe demand a higher interest rates and lower debasement there. This will dragged out longer than need be because people will prefer to mis-allocate capital and bury it in gold, than to invest it on counter-socialism trends in developing world. Until there is a break away from the cancer of the developed world, there are no savior investments, except those that are income (not just debasement psychology, i.e. inflation expectations) leveraged to that cancer.

Pertaining to the quote of the cartoon in Bix Weir's article and important followup, it is possible that the "BIG people who might accidentally step" on the little people in pebbleland, are actually the politicians and national govts. These socialists stand in the way of faster progress, because they express the wishes of the majority for more "status quo" (insurance, safety, no change) thus increasing socialism. The point of the globalists such as Rothschild, Rockefeller, Trilateral, CFR, Bilderberg, BIS/Basel, etc.. has been that a NWO is preferable to the barriers of auto-determined sovereign nations, and this is because politics always creates local, provincial, national, or federal officials who block progress (e.g. we have noted how the Chinese/Asian politburo/Taipans have enriched themselves and block our ability to go invest and compete with them in their locales). So the globalists see themselves at doing a better job of managing progress (but of course that is their folly, because a further centralization is actually mathematically worse in entropy terms, less free market, more certain to mis-allocate and fail, which is exactly what Revelation explains). If you look carefully at the golden road cartoon frame, you see that it jives with my understanding of the future of more centralization, where all gold leads to the center perfect controlled city and away from the savage freedom of the diverse rural area. We are headed for a world where gold is controlled more by larger entities, and the little people are left with currencies that float. If we want a less centralized future world, we need to get off our butt now and head to developing world and make our capital work for counter-trend direction with leverage to the trend.

More on the Bix Weir cartoon analysis, I see the shift from Asians in 1981 version to Caucasians in 2007 version, is because those fighting for a gold standard were defeated (9-11 being the culmination), because the Asians were not successfully taught to diversify their asset strategies before it was too late for them to de-couple. Reagan's group failed. They did bring down the USSR and they made a lot of progress (search out the $5 trillion slush fund for that, which may still be abroad), but they didn't get the final result of a gold standard. So now we are left with Caucasians cashing in their gold and silver for paper. Even I read Indian population is slowing down its consumption of silver and gold, as its fiat banking system grows.

Now let's analyze Weir's follow up points:

http://news.goldseek.com/GoldSeek/1214492700.php

...WHAT WOULD IT TAKE TO TAKE DOWN THE “BIG PEOPLE”?

1) Destruction of the banking establishment – $600 Trillion of worthless derivatives has put the banking establishment into insolvency… they just haven’t declared it yet. Greenspan was a big supporter of derivatives and non-regulation. He let them sow the seeds of their own destruction. Greenspan promoted unregulated derivatives and risky mortgages knowing the greed of the “big people” would destabilize their financial world.

2) Destruction of the fiat money system – In order to “save the banks” the Federal Reserve has fired up the helicopters to flood the system to the point that the US dollar will become worthless. You didn’t think the US would allow Japan, China, Russia and all to cash in all those worthless dollars for real goods and resources did you? The US will default through the abuse of the printing presses. This is part of the plan. They will make it look like nobody had any control over the global destruction of the financial system.

3) Complete buy-in by the public – A new monetary system requires a complete buy-in by the people of the world. A collapse of the banking system where the rich and the poor lose their entire fortunes would surely accomplish a change in attitude towards our monetary system. Again…creative destruction.

4) Warn the banking cabal to stand down or else...

A lot seems plausible, except how is the public going to buy-in? Weir has his Feinstein/Chocolate Mountain and hidden oil fields thesis for the USA. How do you distribute that to the people in a non-socialistic manner?

Interesting is the interplay of forces within the various PTB discussed here (link that I had read in 2007, is from Weir's article), but which I am reasonably sure is planted mis-information due to numerous errors in logic including that to kill the leaders of the PTB would send the world in chaos and would risk setting off nuclear annihilation of human race. But nevertheless, the bottom line always comes down to financial. The people have no gold. Japan is bankrupt. Asia can't decouple from USA consumers, USA which the Rockfellers apparently have great influence on. And Bix Weir realizes that when he writes:

...Wow, these are some very scary issues if you figure out WHY they are being asked. Sounds to me like the Fed thinks global trade will STOP the moment we go on a gold standard...

http://news.goldseek.com/GoldSeek/1252994940.php

Weir wrote:...The people of the world will rise up in anger at their controllers, demand answers and retribution finally installing a new, more equitable monetary system that is out of the control of the government/banking system...

But he doesn't seem to make the mental connection that a gold standard is unworkable, and will not be accepted by the billions of developing world youth entering their 20s and 30s and demanding liquidity and their life progress. The people will not demand to move to a money standard that turns them into serfs working for the people who have the gold! The people will demand that the govt print and spend more money on them! Weir does not understand that democracies get more socialistic, the larger they get, it is a basic fact. Apparently the "Road to Roota" cartoon is mocking Roota (Weir claims Roota is Greenspan) and saying, "Checkmate, you lost" and socialism can not be stopped.

Now if he is claiming a complete wipeout, so the people reset from nothing and earn their way back up in gold and/or silver, that can take centuries, and the developing world youth are not going to wait for that. You will have wars. That is only possible outcome. Rockfeller is waiting to finance and play both sides of the wars (unless we can somehow just kill off the non-productive populace and then grow onwards...H1N1).

Greenspan lost precisely because he tried to manipulate the end result (with computers, financial futures, etc) and did not trust the free market:

http://silverstockreport.com/2009/greenspan-misapplied.html

Bottom line: we can not restore non-socialistic monetary system, by first dis-hoarding the society of wealth via extreme socialism, because there is no way to restore the wealth in a human generation (20 years) non-socialistically.

==========
ADD: regarding the assertion that we can restore a gold standard by distributing gold to citizens, and why that is socialism and failure directed:

http://economicedge.blogspot.com/2009/04/martin-armstrong-article-anthology.html

Martin Armstrong wrote:(click for article)

http://www.scribd.com/kzuur58

Martin Armstrong wrote:(click for article)

Repeating cycle waves of a gold standard (on, off, then back on a gold standard...repeat):

Martin Armstrong wrote:(click for article)

===========
ADD: interesting that Zimbabwe's hyperinflation experience is that it ended up on a world currency standard ($USD) at the end, which supports my hypothesis that smaller countries will eventually be forced into currency blocs as the demands of their populations or rulers squander their wealth:

http://www.gold-eagle.com/editorials_08/field112309.html


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Because the world revolves on credit

Post  Shelby on Mon Nov 23, 2009 4:53 am

This post is a followup to my prior post on prior page of this thread, Gold & Silver can not be *CURRENCIES* ever again.

Borrower is slave to lender.

It is impossible to move to a gold standard, because the world is thoroughly addicted to credit, and instead of reducing that addiction since 2007, the world has been increasing its crack.

All of the $trivillions in stimulost that are being created, are in most cases created in the form of loans and bonds (i.e. credit), in fact much of it denominated in dollars as carry trade. This means that if the credit can't keep snowballing, then another round of liquidity crisis results and people must sell real goods to raise fiat digits to pay their fiat debt service. Apparently, even most of the current gold price rise is due to margin-based (credit) speculation in the futures markets.

And no one can compete with this increasing socialism entirely, because credit makes it an unprofitable business to produce commodities. Say for example, you decided to create your own group of companies that would trade with each other in honest (non-credit, non-fractional based) real goods money, you would not be able to pay for your commodity inputs in real goods money, because commodities are priced below the marginal cost of production (at least at marginal production, which is where prices are set in an economy), and this is accomplished by getting enough commodity producers to forward sell their product at low prices, and then finance the commodity producers with credit. In essense, the commodity producers steal from society (e.g. society subsidizes the commodity producers) by the process of debasement of fiat through issuance of project financing to the commodity producers. The large lever that was used to jump start this, was nationalizing energy (oil) production and pricing it in dollars at forward hedged prices, and then suppresses the gold price by the same means, so that they oilgarchy (not oligarchy) could take their cut in gold. Society is not going to be willing to get off this "rat wheel", because society loves to steal from itself collectively as individuals get what they erroneously think are lower nominal priced commodities (because they do not factor in the debasement, which is a parasite on their labor).

Now I am going to give you some very important wisdom.

The Achilles heal of the mushrooming credit based socialism described above, is that it prices commodities too low!

What we can proactively do is to focus our production in businesses that have the maximum rate of return on capital (not necessarily high margins, just high margin relative to capital as measured in elapsed time!). What this does is it helps society's economy to grow faster, than the increase of the debasement needed to subsidize commodities. In other words, it will reduce the commodities portion of the economy in fiat terms to diminishing percentage. If you instead bury your capital in a hole (as gold), then you are raising the surrender flag to the socialism, as I explained in Gold & Silver can not be *CURRENCIES* ever again.

Then simply take 10% of that growth and invest it in silver. This will break the back of the commodity price fixing scheme, because silver is produced as a by-product and in order to increase the production of silver the price would need to rise drastically (to increase silverware scrap selling, and restart pure silver mines) or the by-product commodity prices would have to rise drastically. The former case would drive the awareness of the public that silver is money. The latter case would end the PTB's control over the volatility and below marginal cost pricing of commodities. I think the PTB know that this is their Achilles heal, and I speculate that this is why Bernanke began drastically pulling liquidity out of the financial system in 2008 to bring on a crash in global economy, and will keep the global economy on a yoyo from here out due to the threat from silver.

So realize that the PTB (the lenders, i.e. the controllers of the fiat system) can at any time shut off production of commodities (at least at the margins driving prices skyhigh, and thus most of the the economy that inputs commodities, especially oil), by shutting off financing. But they would only do this for a temporary crisis, because they do not want permanent higher real prices. More importantly, the production of commodities has been peaking due to them being priced below the marginal cost of production. What the PTB is trying to do is create a production crisis where the public will agree to be more socialized, i.e. to increase the rate of subsidy to the commodity production, e.g. carbon credits is one example. The (temporary) peaks in production will be erroneously blamed on geology and other non-sense propaganda (which unfortunately many gold bugs regurgitate as if they have no brain stem) in order to get the society to agree to higher levels of socialism.

Realize that in any of cases described above, it would be wise for every person to learn how to grow their own vegetables and meat, and perhaps to stockpile some long-term storage dry goods (and canned goods although these are expensive and you should be consuming them regularly to extend expiration dates). In fact, food is getting so expensive that if you do this in low price labor regions, you can probably pay someone to do it profitably (as long as you do not need oil to bring it to market nor subject to taxation if you consume it yourself, that is why I say vegetables only, as grains need economies-of-scale), even on a small scale, probably even using organic methods so you do not depend on oil (fertilizer). The reason being that all possible scenarios forward call for a shortage of commodities. As explained in prior posts, that doesn't necessarily mean you can simply get ahead by buying gold, as other essential commodities might rise in price (and scarcity) just as much or more.

Good luck and God bless.

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China scuttles the communist global govt

Post  Shelby on Thu Dec 24, 2009 9:50 pm

Well I say they just put it on hold, until they are ready to be the implementers:

http://esr.ibiblio.org/?p=1532

I’m amazed that it turned out to be China that scuttled the plan to establish a global communist government. I guess they really have buried Mao.

Perhaps China is playing for time until they have extinguished their coal supplies and have a full monopoly on climate change product design and development technologies...?

Apparently global warming protests keep getting accidentally held during very cold days:

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2009/mar/04/the-gore-effect/

Hopefully the lie of Global Warming will be exposed soon enough:

...by the time the kleptocrat gang at the UN can wind up for another try, the likelihood is that the “scientific” support for their AGW scam will have been entirely exposed as a tissue of fraud. That’s the way things seem to be heading, anyway. Faster, please!

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How the world really works

Post  Shelby on Wed Dec 30, 2009 9:42 am

You have a big advantage over me, because you are learning this at younger age. I didn't start learning about this until 2005, when I was 40 (well maybe my suspicions started about 9/11/2001, when I was 36).

It is not as simple as printing money, because most money is not printed these days. In fact, most people do not buy anything with money, they buy with credit. So the supply of money is really the supply of debt. The more debt the banks create, the more money there is in the economy. Also the other important factor is the velocity of money, or how fast the money moves from one person to the next one. There is an equation which relates the supply of money (debt), the velocity, and the total GDP (gross domestic production) on a yearly basis.

Realize banks create debt from nothing. They simply create the debt on the computer and transfer the digits when you want to buy using your credit card or write a check. So it is simple supply and demand. If you increase the amount of tomatoes in production, then the price will go down, because there are more tomatos than there is money. Well the reverse is also true. If you increase the amount of money in circulation (actually the amount of debt as I explained above), then there is more money than there are goods and services, and thus the prices of those goods & services go up. Imagine you are selling something and you have 10 buyers at your door, you will of course raise the price. However if you only have one potential buyer every week, you will lower your price to get more buyers.

Btw, you may wonder how banks can fail, if they can create money from nothing. Well they are required by the central bank to keep reserves at a certain % of outstanding loans (as well to pay for government insurance for depositors, i.e. FDIC in USA system), and thus the central bank can kill any bank in a heartbeat simply by raising the reserve or insurance requirements, and that is exactly what they did recently in order to cause the crisis. Realize the central banks all over the world are run by the PTB (the largest fish of the bankers) and they let the smaller banks go do their dirty work, then every decade or so, they eat those smaller fish. Then repeat anew.

The most important thing to remember about debt, is that it causes people to waste. And this is why debt always leads to failure in the end. The reason the prices of houses went so high in USA and the reason we ended up with 6 bedroom houses for small families, and even 2 or 3 houses per family (a real waste while poor people in world living in mud), was because americans were allowed to borrow at 30 years mortgages, meaning they could leverage 30 years of their income in one purchase now. This caused the prices of houses to go 30 times higher than they should be, this caused americans to buy more houses as investments (a bubble!) which caused the house prices to rise even more, which caused bankers to give people 2nd & 3rd mortages to buy even more houses. We then end up wasting the world's resources on nonsense. And so now the world will crash and fail because of this waste.

I had also read an online rough draft of Robert Kiyosaki's CONSPIRACY OF THE RICH book before it was published, and he does cover the basics reasonably well, but he does not get the details correct in all cases. He writes to be palatable (agreeable) to the mainstream, thus he has to hold back a little bit on the worst details. Also Robert does teach what I told you, that only real estate that pays income is a good investment.

Two resources that I recommend you read are:

(1) http://market-ticker.denninger.net/
(However, read what I wrote about Denninger below)

(2) Jesse Ventura is well known honest former governor of Minnesota, Navy Seal, WWF wrestler, and is known for fighting corruption, and he now is producing a TV show about Conspiracy Theories, which is getting very popular in USA:

http://www.youtube.com/user/sgd1213#p/u/5/YyMU7DHMpYc (HAARP)
http://www.youtube.com/user/sgd1213#p/u/0/TimNU9Pjc9s (9/11)
http://www.youtube.com/user/sgd1213#p/u/17/rMswZMrvF6o (Global Warming)

The 9/11 show above reveals that the hijackers were in the cockpit before the planes took off!!!

As a background for what Jesse considers his most scary UPCOMING show, on 2012, watch this documentary on what's beneath the Denver Airport: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JjjIy1DO0gs (part 1)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gL2vnxVIH_0 (part 2)

Read what my friend Chris Laird has predicted for 2012 (which I do agree but not entirely):
http://www.kitco.com/ind/Laird/dec292009.html

Click the following link to read what I wrote yesterday about Denninger and the re-balancing of the world economy which is happening now:

http://goldwetrust.up-with.com/economics-f4/inflation-or-deflation-t9-300.htm#2494

You will read at the link above, that US current account deficit is decreasing as a % of global GDP, so this means the developing world is starting to pull away from the USA, but also some % of that pulling away is increasing of outsourcing from USA (some of which is for servicing the USA and thus will crash if USA does). So what I think will happen is that by 2012, the big financial system of the world will come crashing down, but I think the PTB (powers that be) are going to make changes and go for regional currency systems. And I think in terms of on the ground in developing countries, many of them will continue to see growth, because the youth in these countries are not going to stop working and producing. It is true that the world is somewhat out-of-balance, in that China is doing all the manufacturing and the other places are doing either farming, transportation, sales/marketing/retailing, or office jobs servicing the big financial system (e.g. out sourcing). So yes there is going to be a big effect on the developing world also when the big financial system has to be restructed by 2012. But there future of growth will remain in the developing world. The youth there will adjust and keep on finding ways to work. Whereas, in the white countries where most of the people are older than 50, you will see these economies become like giant retirement homes and their economies will become very socialistic (tax and steal from the ones who are working to pay for all the old) and not grow. The PTB will attempt to set up a world system where the youth in the developing world are going to be slaving away to pay for the old in the white countries to retire. That is what that Global Warming Cap & Trade plan was about. It is about stealing from those who work to pay for those who don't want to work. And it is about the managers of that (the PTB) getting to maintain their power and wealth (the same white bastards in Europe since 1500s colonial times). You know I am not a rascist, I have 5-10% american indian blood.

2012 appears to be the year to force everything into mayhem:

http://market-ticker.denninger.net/archives/1739-Global-Financial-Implosion-Dead-Ahead.html
http://goldwetrust.up-with.com/economics-f4/inflation-or-deflation-t9-285.htm#2448

Note at following post I seemed to disagree (suggest you read that entire post):

http://goldwetrust.up-with.com/economics-f4/inflation-or-deflation-t9-285.htm#2475

Shelby wrote:...Why did I use 10 years as an example time frame? Because that appears to be about the minimum duration this morass of bailoops and stimulost will continue before defaults are allowed in USA and people are forced to live at their true relative value in the world, which means that is how long until businesses in USA will see the growth rates that are being seen in developing world outside the USA. I actually think the fast rates of return for business opportunity for growth will NEVER fully return permanently to USA, just as they have not fully in old Europe since 1900s. That is why is called socialism-- it means that small business is destroyed. Note in every crisis, there is always some opportunity...

What I meant is the coping mechanism (the regional currencies or what ever) after 2012, will go on for another 8 years at least, before there is some break away from a system that is continuing to fail. The New Deal went on until 1937 or so, and then we had WW2 to finally break that injustice and cause the defaults (the defaults were masked as "rationing" in support of the war, also read another Katz writing on this deception.). See the critical epiphany, is that the PTB always want to be in control of the defaults (e.g. a war where they are making more loans and controlling the chessboard), and not free markets defaults. The injustices cause outrage and hate which the PTB can channel into another WW3, which then after that they can use to restore peace under their own terms of a one world currency and government. So I see the strife and injustice after 2012, as the transistionary period to the one world order.


=================
My reply to Chris Laird's article
=================
Essentially I also see 2012 as the probable time of "global defaults can not be delayed/monetized any longer".

What is not clear to me is the system that will be put in place to deal with it, and how this will impact the developing world. However, I will caution you:

1) Politically (demographically) the developing world can't be held back for more than a blip of perhaps couple of years.

2) PTB needs rising credit in developing world to profit and maintain control, as the USA morphs into a dead socialist economy.

3) Developing world is producing for itself more and more (more inter-trade).

Rather I see a new series of regional currencies to deal with the relative strengths and weaknesses of regions. For example, north america must be devalued relative to east asia. latin america is not able to compete with asia on cheap labor (asia's wages will have to increase first over another decade). I see a massive out-balancing once China's peg is removed and pan-asian currency is adopted. Massive growth will sweep across all of asia and China will benefit too.

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Interesting parallels to Rome (end of nation state & new world order)

Post  Shelby on Tue Jan 05, 2010 9:44 pm

Doug Casey explains this in a much more interesting way than any other account I have ever read on Rome and military:

http://www.caseyresearch.com/displayCwc.php?id=31
http://www.caseyresearch.com/displayCwc.php?id=30

We can see 1 Samuel 8 applies, for example that the images on the currency in Rome and USA were changed to idol dead rulers at the crucial turn dates towards socialism (1913 in USA).

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Final warning from Shelby

Post  Shelby on Wed Jan 13, 2010 8:35 am

America might start the next world war. I think once things start to crack, we are going to see really crazy things that even none of us expected.

http://www.thedailybell.com/724/Edwin-Vieira-the-Coming-Military-Crackdown.html

...Furthermore, here in America, if the Armed Forces are deployed to suppress widespread civil unrest emanating from a major breakdown of the economy that threatens the continued viability of the military-industrial complex, the Brass Hats will have a particularly compelling institutional incentive to maintain themselves in positions of political leadership: namely, securing their reason for being and the source of their importance, power, and benefits. In addition, thoroughly politicized Armed Forces will likely feel the need to justify the expensive existence of the military-industrial complex by inserting themselves into, if not instigating outright, ever-expanding overseas military adventures. Thus, "the war on terror"-in addition to whatever other forms of aggressive imperialism can be fomented, ostensibly to "defend our freedoms" in a "homeland" no longer free-will drag on forever, at untold costs in lives and treasure.

Of course, as has proven true everywhere else, politicized Armed Forces in this country will be unable to solve the underlying economic and social problems that rationalized their politicization in the first place. So America will be wracked with chronic political chaos: token civilian regimes staffed with incompetent puppets and "yes men", followed by new bouts of military string-pulling or outright intervention aimed at cleaning up the last crisis, and so on, along the sorry lines South American republics such as Argentina have followed for generations.

For that reason, people worried simply about the likelihood of hyperinflation, depression, or hyperinflation coupled with depression-and about how they might be able to protect their incomes and accumulated wealth under such circumstances-are viewing their world through rather ill-fitting rose-colored glasses. When hyperinflation or other economic calamities strike, and the Armed Forces are politicized as instruments of domestic repression, merely maintaining his income and securing his accumulated wealth will become matters of very low priority for anyone with high economic, social, or political visibility...

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REPEAT EVERYTHING IS DEVOLVING NOW IN USA

Post  Shelby on Thu Jan 14, 2010 7:17 pm

Here is a smoking gun on Obama:

http://www.orlytaitzesq.com/?p=7366

...Obama’s Selective Service is registered under the state of CT number 042-68-4425, which was issued in CT to individual born in 1890...

When you register, you register under your name, DOB, and SS number.The point here is that he has a record that was registered under a SS number beginning with 042. SS numbers are issued according to the state where you are living when they are applied for. The numbers themselves are coded- the first 3 indicating the state from which it was applied for. 042 is the coding for Conn. There is no way he could have a Conn issued SS number living in Hawaii. Therefore, it is a fraudulent number that was used in registering for the selective service.

I have an errie feeling that things remained much too calm in USA since the 2007 crash. This is probably going to devolve into something very nasty. Hommel has some good points:

http://silverstockreport.com/2010/Jan-update.html

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EU will surrender sovereignty to Brussels and BIS

Post  Shelby on Wed Feb 10, 2010 2:25 am

http://www.spiegel.de/international/business/0,1518,676507,00.html

Now politicians are facing a difficult decision: Should they continue as they have, thus potentially undermining the euro's ability to function? Or should they yield a portion of their national sovereignty to Brussels?

There are only 2 choices:

1) Iceland example, break away and suffer but bottom out
2) Move to a larger aggregation of socialism

I predict #2 until the world ends up like MadMax.

We are in the tribulations, because people of world refuse to simplify and reduce their life, because many of them can't. We have billions of people who can't eat without a paper income job. Those countries which are still self-sufficient and small, can resist the socialism, e.g. Iceland, but they will the rare case. Zimbabwe and Weimer were the examples to the world, showing what can happen if you break away from the socialism and do not have sound backing to your financial system and self-sufficiency. Iceland is the example of when you break away but have the necessary self-sufficiency.

In short, the fat PIGS of the world (all the useless eaters) will join together and go down the abyss united (at least to some point where MadMax occurs). The advantage of the united front is it is more slow moving (greater inertia) and it is leverage to use to rape the developing world.

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And the real reason the PTB targetted the PIGS

Post  Shelby on Wed Feb 10, 2010 3:20 pm

See prior post and now this:

http://finance.yahoo.com/taxes/article/108806/tax-evasion-dogs-greece

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What they are discussing at the (no so) secret banker meeting?

Post  Shelby on Wed Feb 10, 2010 5:55 pm

http://www.zerohedge.com/article/some-more-perspectives-weekends-secretive-banker-meeting-syndey#comment-222697


========
P.S. there was also some great humor in the comments on the above page here are the direct links:

http://goldwetrust.up-with.com/health-f5/humor-and-or-wit-t26-15.htm#2659

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Asian Union by 2015

Post  Shelby on Sat Feb 13, 2010 2:02 pm

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Thailand-Prepare-Asean-Community-t338687.html

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Americans will hate by proxy due to addictions?

Post  Shelby on Mon Mar 29, 2010 5:53 pm

Emailed this to Katz

Shelby wrote:What do you think of this theory?

http://www.marketoracle.co.uk/Article18251.html

Regarding your article showing how Nazi Germany resulted from the "love" of health care, the Germans were apparently intoxicated by their love of themselves as perfectionists (and they still are from what I see when I meet elderly germans). I haven't met any younger Germans in my travels in Asia.

My worst case scenario is drugged gangs roam the country burning down the houses (since holding housing costs up is unsustainable but the boomers lives are ruined otherwise). Germany murdered its own people because its health care system had gotten too expensive, and their perfectionist ego would not allow them to admit their health care system had failed, so instead they decided to make it more "perfect" by eliminating the "weak DNA".

The USA is intoxicated literally. A large segment of the society is drugged to the hilt. I think I read that 30% of elementary school kids are on some form of medication. I think 15 - 50% of the Americans are sober and will fight this. Heroin epidemics are sprouting all over the country. There is a segment of the population that is addictively dependent, and thus the hate could be performed by proxy using the "blue hats" on American soil (Kissinger).

There is a "gun under every blade of grass" in USA, so the only way for TPTB to defeat those "you can take my gun from my cold hand" sector, is to have a 2nd civil war, this time fought by proxy with the "support" (inability to resist) of the intoxicated sector.

The USA society is so stratified culturally and financially, I can not see the union holding together without force to wipe out one side.

We won't really see the full reaction (withdrawal symptoms) of the addicted/dependent segment until their punch bowl is withdrawn. The Medicare drug program was the most expensive thing Bush did.

I am confident there are Germans who break the stereotype, my comments above were just on the mass effect.

Note Doug Casey covers the topic near the end of this video segment of debate on health care, where he states also what I have said, which is insurance is the problem (I have often said insurance guarantees failure), and he says we will end up with mandated death as a result of insurance and socializing it to the govt in order to try to prevent the inevitable failure:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=42Kc8Zp1_h8

(note ancient biblical wisdom of 1 Samuel 8, and the 2nd commandment apply. Also the scripture about "do not be surety to another person)

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Indonesia and Philippines to allow foreigners to buy land this year?

Post  Shelby on Sat Apr 10, 2010 10:37 am

I wonder if western capital will get trapped by capital controls and unable to take advantage of this? Is the EU pressuring for this change (see last quote of this post) so the bankers can come in with their large corporations and buy up all the land, especially when the sovereign debt crisises create liquidity crisises that drive land values down in real terms?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philippines_charter_change#Charter_Change_under_Arroyo
http://www.inquirer.net/specialfeatures/charterchange/archive.php

http://retirephilippines.wetpaint.com/thread/2324686/Foreign+land+ownership+gets+more+support.

House Resolution No. 737, authored by Speaker Prospero Nograles Jr., calls for the amendment of Sections 2 and 3 of Article 12 of the Constitution "to allow the acquisition by foreign corporations and associations and the transfer or conveyance thereto, of alienable public and private lands."

The measure is backed by more than 160 lawmakers

Nograles is running for Mayor of Davao City this May, against Duturte who has been mayor for decades.

http://www.inquirer.net/specialfeatures/charterchange/view.php?db=1&article=20090718-216042

70% oppose Charter change–SWS

http://www.livetradingnews.com/asean-markets-to-open-lower-2-11295.htm

Indonesia will allow foreigners to buy property in the country and own bigger stakes in health-care companies as it completes a review of investment rules, the country’s investment coordination agency said.

Southeast Asia’s largest economy plans to deregulate its property industry by the end of the first half, allowing foreigners to buy homes and commercial real estate directly, Gita Wirjawan, chairman of the Investment Coordination Board of Indonesia, said in a forum in Singapore today. The move will “unleash value,” he said.

http://www.thejakartapost.com/news/2010/04/03/relaxing-foreign-ownership-policy.html

Some expatriates buy houses in Indonesia to spend their holidays there, while others purchase them for retirement and investment purposes. No matter what purpose is, with more than 80,000 expatriates living in Indonesia, it’s easy to see why the prospects for the property market look bright.
But how bright that prospect could be is still open to question, as developers feel government’s restrictions on foreign ownership has made Indonesia appear less attractive to expatriate buyers.

“Expatriates are only allowed to hold a leasehold title for 25 years. Although they can renew the title for another 25 and 20 years, it’s actually complicated for them,” said Teguh Satria, chairman of the Indonesian Real Estate Association (REI). “Why do we not just give them the right for 70 years from the beginning, to make it easier?”

Teguh acknowledged that the 1960 Basic Agrarian Law allowed foreigners to use land for no longer than 70 years, thus scrapping the “25-25-20” scheme would be the best possible option for the moment.

“In terms of pricing, properties in Indonesia are much more affordable than neighboring countries,” he said. “However, it’s the 25-year [renewable] term that makes Indonesia lag far behind.”
Compared to Indonesia, for example, he said, properties in Singapore are 11 times more expensive. The price of property in Macau, on the other hand is four to six times higher, and in Malaysia, two to three times more expensive.

However, “Singapore offers 99 years of ownership; Malaysia 90 years, and in a certain area in Johor, they even let foreigners have a freehold title,”

http://opinion.inquirer.net/inquireropinion/talkofthetown/view/20100327-261174/Stand-on-Charter-change-Arroyo-as-Speaker

...The provision on the ownership of land except agricultural land. I will let foreigners own land. The only ones benefiting from the current provision are big-time realtors like the Ayalas. They buy several hundreds of thousands of hectares and speculate. In the meantime the property remains idle.

If we allow foreigners to come in, there will be competition. If foreigners are allowed to buy land, they will develop it. Jobs will be generated. At the same time, we will collect taxes on idle lands...

...Third is in terms of land use. I will open up foreign investments in land but they should not own mineral, forest or agricultural lands. They can go on joint ventures. And if they get commercial or residential lots, they cannot sit on it for three years. They have to utilize it...

...We need to oppose the drive of foreign investors and their local political and business partners to scrap and replace the nationalistic and protectionist provisions in our Constitution, specifically those reserving ownership of land and media to Filipino citizens. We should also guard against the further opening up of the country to US military presence in exchange for widening politicians’ privileges.

If there is a need for Charter change, it should be for expanding, not abolishing pro-Filipino provisions...

...I’m in favor of foreigners owning residential, industrial and commercial lands, segregating a few areas for low-cost housing. I’m OK with total ownership. But not agricultural, mineral or forest lands...

http://www.bcphilippineslawyers.com/foreign-ownership-of-land-in-the-philippines/371/

Foreigners my own buildings or houses in the Philippines legally; as long as they do not own the land on which it is built.

Foreign individuals, corporations or associations may lease land for a period of 25 years renewable for another 25 years. (P. D. No 471, Fixing a Maximum Period for the Duration of Leases or Private Lands to Aliens)

Companies or individuals investing in the Philippines may receive government permission to lease land for up to 50 years renewable for another 25 years. (Republic Act No. 7652, otherwise know as the Investors’ Lease Act)

http://www.mb.com.ph/articles/251492/rps-first-web-mapping-service-launched

Valencia also said that given the information that the map output speedily and conveniently provides to potential land buyers, investors and lending institutions, the service would go a long way towards facilitating the inflow of domestic and foreign investments into the country.

http://www.bilaterals.org/article.php3?id_article=15374

ARE lawmakers planning to rewrite the Constitution to lift the ban on 100-percent foreign ownership of land in the Philippines?

The question was raised by the fisherfolk alliance Pambansang Lakas ng Kilusang Mamamalakaya ng Pilipinas (Pamalakaya) to lawmakers on Thursday as they noted that the European Union (EU) is allegedly exerting pressure on Malacañang to pursue Charter Change (Cha-cha), precisely for that purpose.

Pamalakaya national chairman Fernando Hicap said if this is the case, lawmakers are acting as facilitators for a big sellout of the country’s agricultural land.

Meanwhile, he said the EU is committing a national political foul play in lobbying for the passage of Cha-cha.

“This country is not for sale; its lands are reserved for public ownership and for the common good of every hardworking Filipino. Please don’t touch our lands and quit from conspiring with the government over the national auction of Philippine lands to European business giants,” Hicap said.

According to Hicap, such “diabolical economic agenda” of the EU will further exacerbate, complicate and worsen the problem of landlessness and agrarian injustice in the country.

“Are they trying to colonize this country through economic means under this era of globalization-led modern-day slavery?” Hicap asked.

The Pamalakaya leader issued the statement a day after former foreign affairs undersecretary Merlin Magallona warned that lawmakers calling for the removal of nationalist economic provisions in the 1987 Constitution could be playing into the hands of the European Union.

Magallona, also former dean of the University of the Philippines’ (UP) College of Law, said the 27-member of the EU had formally requested the Arroyo government under the World Trade Organization to remove the ban on foreign land ownership.

The EU also requested the government to allow foreign nationals, particularly lawyers, to be allowed to practice in the Philippines, according to Magallona, who was a guest speaker at a forum on Charter change at the UP College of Law on Wednesday.

Pamalakaya’s Hicap believes the EU wants the ban on foreign ownership abolished because it would soon enter into a bilateral economic agreement with the Philippine government under the EU-RP Free Trade Agreement, where one of the major provisions is the removal of the ban on foreign ownership of land.

“The Philippine government has been keeping the details of the EU-RP Free Trade Agreement away from the Filipino public and affected sectors and interest groups. This agreement will allow European transnational corporations to lease if not acquire agricultural lands and other productive lands from Filipino landowners,” he said.

“To set the record straight, the Philippine government is set to lease or sell some 1.5 million hectares of prime agricultural lands to foreign countries where the countries have entered into a bilateral economic and trade agreement,” Hicap added.

According to Pamalakaya, foreign countries are allowed to lease if not buy lands from the Philippines under the following bilateral agreements—the Japan-Philippines Economic Partnership Agreement, RP-China Agricultural Agreement, RP-South Korea Bilateral Trade Agreement, RP-Australia Free Trade Agreement and the soon-to-be-finalized EU-RP Free Trade Agreement and the RP-US Bilateral Trade Agreement.

“All these agreements require the Philippine government to lease or sell its lands to foreign corporations, and this is extremely dangerous to the 90 million Filipinos,” the group said.

http://kenthink7.blogspot.com/2009/06/manila-selling-land-to-foreigners.html

Manila selling land to foreigners
By Gerry Albert CorpuzColumn: Politics in Command
Published: June 22, 2009
Font size: Manila, Philippines —
Last week Philippine President Gloria Arroyo announced that her government will allow the Japanese investor Pacific Bio-Fields Holdings to acquire 400,000 hectares of land in northern Luzon for the production of biodiesel products intended for the Japanese market in the next five years.
During her state visit to Tokyo, Japan, Arroyo confirmed that the agreement between the United Kingdom-based Japanese firm and its local counterpart, Bio-Energy NL, will be signed sometime in August.
The agreement will allow both companies to utilize forest area to plant coconut trees for a reasonable fee, provided that 60 percent of the biodiesel products will be acquired by the Philippine government and the remaining 40 percent will supply biodiesel fuel to Japan for Japanese users in five years.
However, the Japanese investor maintains that all the products will be shipped to Japan, contrary to previous reports that 60 percent would be made available for the use of Filipinos, and 40 percent for Japanese car users. Based on the existing agreement, the Manila government will charge standard fees for the lease of 400,000 hectares of land for 25 years, renewable for another 25 years.
A separate memorandum of agreement between the Department of Environment and Natural Resources and the Philippine Coconut Authority had been clinched to facilitate the takeover of the land by the two firms.
Agrarian reform advocates in Manila denounced the agreement. One of the groups, the fisherfolk umbrella alliance Pamalakaya, called on members of Parliament to stop the deal. Pamalakaya national chairperson Fernando Hicap lamented that while seven out of 10 Filipino farmers and fishermen are landless people, the Philippine government is giving away 400,000 hectares of land.
“In exchange for 400 nursing and caregiving jobs in Japan, President Gloria Macapagal-Arroyo will allow the corporate exploitation of 400,000 hectares of Philippine agricultural lands to foreign groups identified with and serving at the pleasure of Japanese carmakers,” Hicap said.
Prior to the announcement in Tokyo, the Philippines government came under fire from critics after news reports in Manila alleged that the European Union was interfering in local politics by pressing Arroyo to revise the Constitution and lift the ban on foreign ownership of land in the country.
Ambassador Alistair MacDonald, the EU Commission’s ambassador to Manila, denied the report, saying there was no formal request from European states to revise the Philippine charter.
But despite the denial, anti-charter change groups are still convinced the European Union is after Philippine lands.

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Steel prices rising 10 - 15% per month (or bi-weekly)

Post  Shelby on Mon Apr 12, 2010 10:01 am

I have been building a house, mostly out of steel, and watching the prices of steel rise 10 - 15% ever couple to few weeks.

Appears price inflation is accelerating again.

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Southern USA to become a drug-war zone?

Post  Shelby on Mon Apr 19, 2010 5:04 am

http://www.kitco.com/ind/Wieg_cor/roger_apr152010.html

In South America, Hugo Chavez has literally destroyed his country and is partnering with Putin and other commies to arm all the rebels within the southern hemisphere. He is particularly encouraging the really Bad Boyz, engaged in Mexican pharmaceutical sales, to take over that government and spread disaster into the southern USA. He is winning.

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Re: Changing World Order

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